Let's rewind time to when you were a beginner....


  • Community Manager

    Can you recall the first time you learnt/heard about P2P investing?

    What made you start your journey and what was the first step you took?


  • Contributor

    I knew roughly what is p2p based on the basic graphical concept. I went to read up more on it,

    As an ex banker, I felt that I have no problem in understanding the issue so I start with baby step then increase my profile accordingly along the way


  • Emergent

    I remember doing a Monte Carlo simulation on the dynamics of returns an defaults. The basic notion is that rates have to be high enough to take in all the defaults.



  • Happened way back in 2009 when I was exposed to microloans in China where we pooled together money and loan it to those unfortunate people in rural areas that have no access to any loan facilities. I believe after that, banks in China started to facilitate these P2Ps as some of my friends there said it was a wealth management product strongly encouraged by the bank and government.


  • Contributor

    @kaeley-wn
    I was excited and happy that i can make money from the "Money Lending" business legally. (O$P$) Hahaha



  • @ktinvest Ya, till u have the urge to buy red paints.



  • HAHAHHAHA..i have the same urge, buy red paints and splash em on the deafaulter.lol


  • Contributor

    @rahulsk1947

    Don't waste money and paint. Let your platform help you to do the job.

    When it comes to debt collection, you only see the runners do the job right not the boss do it.

    The boss if come out with money and still have to do everything then damn bad life leh.

    Since you are an investor like the ah long boss, let your runners do the job. (In this case your platform)



  • @bendahara LOL what a perspective!



  • @bendahara sad thing is that the runner has taken their cut but cannot perform to recover the payments promptly. Actually in this world of P2P, the platform always wins. See, they invested nothing in every loan, all money is from the investors. If the borrower pays, FS takes a cut. If the borrower defaults, investors lost. FS has nothing to lose!



  • @2387581 @2387581 I also like the idea about have a legal O$P$.
    About the fact that platform always win and pocket the money from investor may not be true. If the platform plays a truly zero sum game, platform win and users lose. Few would be attracted to it and eventually phase out (China incident).
    P2P platform should be like a marketplace where the owners and stall operators are satisfied with the service and costs. What does the market place's owner do to attract more customer coming to his area. That they need a sum, called rental fee. Similarly, does p2p platform provide reasonable platform fee(or expenses)?



  • @kaeley-wn haha same. Excited to own or have a legitimate O$P$ company PTE Ltd.

    Of course would like earn interest from lending people money for the right purpose and with good faith and trust from them.

    I really want to start compounding my money early with small capital. This is actually how I managed to research and come upon p2p investing, as a alternative investment.

    Really curious why p2p is more viral in MY as compared to SG? Or the degree of acceptancy in SG seems lower than in My...



  • @alex-chua-c-e I'm looking at it as a 'zero-risk'. I like to imagine myself as FS. How, as the owner of FS, minimise my risk? And how do I maximise my profit? Passing every risk to investor. If borrowers pay, I get paid. If borrowers default, the risks are all investors'.

    With sufficient volume of loans issued, it will dilute the default rate to make it look like minimal risk.

    Not every investor has all the money to invest equal amount in every single note. Which means a normal investor cannot have the same % of defaults as the platform's statistics.

    In case where the investor has been allocated/invested in a note which defaults. To the investor, it may be 10% of his portfolio. But to FS, meh, it is 0.02% of FS issued notes. To investor, the 90% which have not defaulted, the income may or may not break even the loss of capital from the 10% default. But to FS, since the volume is high, and essentially zero risk, with a lot of investors' fund at disposal (most CF ended within 1 minute), FS will get more fee from these notes, hoping they pay promptly.

    It is in FS's interest to issue more notes, good or bad, to maximise profit. This has been exemplify in some recent notes whereby some same borrowers used different company ID to borrow money. Unfortunately unknowing investors have overexposed in this single borrower with multiple 'clone' IDs, and this borrower decided to default on all notes. Look at this thread: https://crowdfundtalks.com/topic/623/mbbt-18090034-missed-repayment/47

    While it is the same borrower, FS engineered it so that it become different borrowers and break it down to even more notes of smaller amounts. And when there is need to CF legal costs, they can make more from the unfortunate events. Each case RM8000 upfront and subject to escalation. Can't say FS is dumb.


  • Contributor

    @2387581

    Your runner here can only get a cut if they successful get the P+I wor.

    When there is a default they lose too. The time and effort spend on the borrower are resources and money.

    We don't get paid and they don't get paid as well.

    At the end of the day, you die, i die everyone die if we have 100% of the borrowers default



  • @bendahara wise words borrowed from encik muthu XD


  • Emergent

    @2387581 FS has “skin in the game”. Meaning they also invest in the loans they issue so they have the incentive to pick good borrowers.



  • @jomni said in Let's rewind time to when you were a beginner....:

    @2387581 FS has “skin in the game”. Meaning they also invest in the loans they issue so they have the incentive to pick good borrowers.

    That is what they claim but we have no where to verify it. As investor or consumer generally, we must be mindful of the marketing gimmicks and not to fall for empty claims.


  • Emergent

    @2387581 said in Let's rewind time to when you were a beginner....:

    @jomni said in Let's rewind time to when you were a beginner....:

    @2387581 FS has “skin in the game”. Meaning they also invest in the loans they issue so they have the incentive to pick good borrowers.

    That is what they claim but we have no where to verify it. As investor or consumer generally, we must be mindful of the marketing gimmicks and not to fall for empty claims.

    Then let’s ask them to prove. How much skin in the game exposure per loan (like in Mintos).



  • Thanks for this positive outlook. ' they also invest in the loans '

    Does FS invest in every note or in notes with very high chances of no-default only?

    Good note or high probability of default note, they still gain from every note issues through service fee.



  • @rahulsk1947 I believe to some extent they do invest in the loans. It is not in their interest to lie. Nevertheless, it would help if they publish the information. The question is, to what degree, or the percentage of the total loans amount? Do they have a fixed quota to follow?



  • @vamsi7 @kaeley-wn could you help verify this? Does FS invest in loans? to what extent / quota? Thanks!


  • Emergent

    I was complaining to them last time that FS own allocation might be lessening our chance of getting an allocation. :D



  • @jomni now we could ask, how they achieve this balance. In the place, it is within their policies to play 'skin in the game'



  • @jomni For Mintos, skin in the game is contributed by the loan originators or Mintos themselves?


  • Emergent

    @arigatomon originator



  • I heard about P2P lending earlier and some of its bad stories in China. Until recently my friend introduced me FS and I look at it in detail. So far, I have been used FS for 2 months. Thing is going well so far



  • @khanh
    mind sharing your story?
    i believe majority of the p2p in china is done via their banks as an investment/wealth product. but they no longer allow foreigners to invest in those products anymore.
    i personally haven't come across a non-bank/gov backed p2p platform there.


  • Contributor

    @khanh yes, china is infamous for many p2p companies going bust. But SEA learned from china mistakes. Regulations are very strict here. In china, regulations came in much later, after thousands of P2Ps sprouted up. and when regulations came into effect, most them gone bust.



  • 5 more new P2P coming out soon in malaysia as per latest news. That means we would have 12 p2p . Hope security commission does stringent checks.



  • @jonhan i guess i've already filtered those at glance hahaha and didn't fall prey into those sketchy ones. so far my experience with banks facilitated p2p in china was pretty decent. returns are good and they're secured but with their new gov regulation, foreigners are not allowed to perform any bank facilitated wealth and investment products.


  • Contributor

    @tckw93 interesting. how does one invest in the china p2p market? last i heard the investment process for foreigners and non residents is almost impossible unless u are a high net worth investor willing to put in millions


  • Funding Societies

    Hey everyone, jumping in to provide more clarity on the Skin-In-The-Game philosophy at FS. As @jomni has pointed out, we do have related parties that invest in the notes we issue. However, they are not afforded any special privileges and they follow the same benefits offered to our investors in our loyalty program (SG-only, at the moment) according to the relevant tier they are in. To further ensure no special privileges, the same information is available at the same time to investors and related parties who are also queued on Auto Invest.

    We exclude team members from the credit and risk assessment team, who hold crucial information regarding issuers, from investing altogether, as well as from sharing extraneous information (beyond what's on the fact sheet) on issuers, to other teams.

    Happy investing!



  • @kaeley-wn I remember I used to misunderstand that P2P financing was for start-ups, like those tech start-ups which could not get funding from VCs or angels. Turns out there are none (@kaeley-wn ?) of these since they need to be profitable at least.
    Totally didn't realise the large no. of brick and mortar sme businesses in need of funding underneath the whole startup hype.


 

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