1.1.4: Which P2P platforms are open globally 🌍 to foreign investors?


  • Community Manager

    This is part of the Cross-Country P2P Investing series, where we explore the different factors one should consider when doing cross-country P2P investing, crowdsourced from the community and beefed up with more research. Enjoy!

    Hey folks!

    These platforms are open globally to foreign investors, in alphabetical order:

    • Amartha (Indonesia)
    • Crowdo (Indonesia)
    • Envestio (Estonia)
    • EstateGuru (US); bank account in any of the EEA member states or in Switzerland required
    • Fellow Finance (Finland)
    • Funding Societies (Singapore)
    • Funding Societies (Malaysia)
    • FundingSecure (UK)
    • KoinWorks (Indonesia)
    • Linked Finance (Ireland); EU bank account required
    • Mintos (UK); EU bank account required, or third countries currently considered to have AML/CFT systems equivalent to the EU
    • Modalku (Indonesia)
       

    Additional notes:

    • If the platform is based in the UK you will generally face greater hurdles when trying to open an overseas account, such as more manual checks to try to confirm your identity

    @Gaudente @antoniomc27 @evenu thanks for bringing awareness to these platforms, and for sharing your experiences in other posts!

    Feel free to further recommend any of the above platforms that you've used, with any follow-up comments or reviews. :)

     

    Heard of / currently investing with any global platforms outside of this list?

    Spread the love and introduce them to us!

     

    Happy investing as always!


  • Community Manager

    P.S.: All the above platforms have been tried by various community members, so go ahead and ask questions below to find out about their experience!



  • Has anyone heard about this platform? It seems they are open for global investors as well and it is based in Estonia Europe.
    https://envestio.com/


  • Community Manager

    @josephyiong Not me, thanks for sharing! :) have you heard good things about them?



  • Here are some more platforms that I use as a Malaysia based investor. I have an EU bank account also a Borderless account with Transferwise in GBP and EUR.

    Lendy (UK) - running down
    Collateral (UK) - in administration!
    MoneyThing (UK) - running down
    DoFinance (Latvia) - exited
    Grupeer (Latvia) - business loans up to 12 months
    Robocash (Latvia) short term consumer loans
    FastInvest (Lithuania) consumer loans up to 12 months
    Peerberry (Lithuania) short term consumer loans
    Envestio (Estonia) business loans

    In the original list EstateGuru should be Estonia not US



  • Hi @kaeley-wn , both Mintos and Estateguru are Baltic platforms (Latvia/Estonia/Lithuania).

    @Alistair-Black glad to see people in Robocash, DoFinance, Envestio! I also invest on the 3 of them.

    @josephyiong I have invested a moderate sum on it about a month ago. High risk- high reward platform, for the moment wait-and-see approach for me before investing further.

    If you want a referral code, PM me, and we can get 5 EUR + a 0.5% bonus of the funds you invest



  • On a general note, here are some referral links to some of the platforms above, and an explanation of what reward each referrer/referred gets:

    CROWDO
    My Code, to be used during registration: U027595
    This referral program is quite unfair, offering 1% of the funds invested during the 3 first months ONLY to the referrer. To make it fair, I propose I bank you 0.5% so we both get 0.5% of the invested funds

    ENVESTIO
    https://envestio.com/?invite=2hvQW1V
    Reward: 5 EUR + 0.5% of the funds invested for both.

    ESTATEGURU
    https://estateguru.co/login/auth?userPromotionCode=EGU90750
    0.5% of the funds invested during the next 3 months of opening the account for both.

    MINTOS
    www.mintos.com/es/ref/SYGA9U
    0.75% of the funds invested during the first 3 months for both

    GRUPEER
    https://www.grupeer.com?invited_by=grp_100941
    Referral income is paid for all investments made within 6 months by users, registered by following your referral link. The time period is calculated from the moment of user’s registration on Grupeer Platform.
    Referral income depends on the term for which the investment is made:
    • investments for a period up to 3 months : referral income 0.50% of the investment;
    • investments for a period from 3 up to 6 months: referral income 0.70% of the investment;
    • investments for a period from 6 up to 9 months: referral income 1.00% of the investment;
    • investments for a period from 9 up to 12 months: referral income 1.00% of the investment;
    • investments for a period more than 12 months : referral income 1.25% of the investment.


  • Community Manager

    Hey there @alistair-black!

    Curious to find out if there're any changes on your involvement with these platforms. Any updates? :)



  • Eastern Europe markets regulated?



  • @jomni recent article on P2P regs in the Baltics (Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania) https://www.p2phero.com/2018/01/15/regulation-of-p2p-loans-with-focus-on-the-baltics/?lang=en

    relevant to Envestio and the other platforms @Alistair-Black uses..



  • How do you transfer money to these European platforms - always the same service, or depending on prevailing rates?



  • @jomni said in 1.1.4: Which platforms are open globally 🌍 to foreign investors?:

    Eastern Europe markets regulated?

    shhhh....be quiet..... regulation means taxes



  • @kaeley-wn Only minor change as I have added Crowdestor from Estonia. A new platform with few loans. It was suggested as a complement to Envestio by a financial blogger. Envestio like many others have reduced interest rates, but still are competitive.
    I am definitely decided to reduce my Sterling exposure as far as possible because of Brexit, but this is difficult as there are many bad property loans with Lendy and Moneything, not to speak of the defunct Collateral platform!


  • Community Manager

    @alistair-black Ah, nice discovery! How's the Crowdestor experience so far?



  • @kaeley-wn said in 1.1.4: Which platforms are open globally 🌍 to foreign investors?:

    @alistair-black Ah, nice discovery! How's the Crowdestor experience so far?
    Crowdestor is a new platform with not many loans or investors.
    Interest rates are around 16-17% average. Loans are announced with about a week's notice and interest is paid from date of investment. As they are usually slow to fill this is an advantage.
    Funds would be returned if loan is not subscribed to minimum required. I have 7 loans and no problems so far.


  • Community Manager

    @alistair-black Sounds good! How long are the tenures?


  • Community Manager

    Has anyone tried out Crowd2fund yet? Based in UK, open to international investors as well.



  • @alistair-black said in 1.1.4: Which platforms are open globally 🌍 to foreign investors?:

    Here are some more platforms that I use as a Malaysia based investor. I have an EU bank account also a Borderless account with Transferwise in GBP and EUR.

    Lendy (UK) - running down
    Collateral (UK) - in administration!
    MoneyThing (UK) - running down
    DoFinance (Latvia) - exited
    Grupeer (Latvia) - business loans up to 12 months
    Robocash (Latvia) short term consumer loans
    FastInvest (Lithuania) consumer loans up to 12 months
    Peerberry (Lithuania) short term consumer loans
    Envestio (Estonia) business loans

    In the original list EstateGuru should be Estonia not US

    Btw, what is meant by "running down"?



  • @interesting said in 1.1.4: Which platforms are open globally 🌍 to foreign investors?:

    Btw, what is meant by "running down"?

    This is to say that I am gradually withdrawing funds where possible and converting to Euros to invest in Grupeer. Property loans are difficult to sell, but all others sell instantly on the Secondary Market.



  • @kaeley-wn said in 1.1.4: Which platforms are open globally 🌍 to foreign investors?:

    Sounds good! How long are the tenures?
    Tenures vary a lot from 6 months to 2 years for some property loans.



  • Mintos:

    A big shout out to those who champion cross-border platforms, and mention Mintos - @antoniomc27 @Gaudente, among others.

    In hindsight, it seems so simple to set up and fund my Mintos account.
    But being an old fogey with a crystallized ‘bricks and mortar’ mindset ( IBAN?), it took me a few weeks to accomplish this simple task after some few trials and errors.

    Here are the final steps to success :

    I’m Malaysian, btw.

    1. Mintos account activation: About a week, after some persistent emails from me.

    2. InstaRem account activation: 4-5 days including KYC (some minor hiccups after KYC)

    3. TransferWise Borderless account activation: No issues here - about 2 days.

    4. Test transfer from my local bank account to IR. (1day)

    5. Test transfer from IR to TW (1 day)

    6. Full transfer from my local bank account to IR (a few hours )

    7. Full transfer from IR to TW (few hours - still working hours over there)

    8. Test transfer to Mintos through TW (1-2 days to reach there)

    9. Attach my TW deposit receipt and email to Mintos a few times. Here is their final auto-email response:
      0_1550681276402_81c75315-4739-4aa6-a6d6-4b03780ffc99-image.png
      It’s just a wordy message suggesting that they are under-staffed.
      Anyone should be hanged for using the word ‘proactive'.

    10. Finally, type “DPS” in the email subject, copy and paste the TW deposit receipt text.
      They fund my account after a few hours.
      All right, I’m all set to ‘go and grow’ my 40 Euros.

    PS: My 40 Euros got invested right away. I forgot to turn off the default auto-invest.
    Probably some agriculture loans.



  • Why InstaRem to Transferwise? Why not just use one to fund Mintos?



  • @jomni

    TW does not support MYR outflow (at the moment) unlike SG.

    I didn't even give a second thought about sending funds directly to Mintos using IR , since repatriation back to MYR would still incur the same traditional exorbitant exchange rates cost.

    Besides, using the borderless account is such a breeze. I have just funded PeerBeery within minutes. Balance transfer cost is 0.8 Euro.



  • @statscollection said in 1.1.4: Which platforms are open globally 🌍 to foreign investors?:

    @jomni

    TW does not support MYR outflow (at the moment) unlike SG.

    I didn't even give a second thought about sending funds directly to Mintos using IR , since repatriation back to MYR would still incur the same traditional exorbitant exchange rates cost.

    Besides, using the borderless account is such a breeze. I have just funded PeerBeery within minutes. Balance transfer cost is 0.8 Euro.

    Makes sense. I’m SG-based so I was wondering. Will definitely open TransferWise and go into these P2P soon



  • @jomni indeed if InstaRem allows to change MYR into EUR it should be possible to use it to deposit on Mintos directly. Perhaps Mintos is not aware of InstaRem and does not accept it. After all , I don't think they have many Malaysian investors.



  • @gaudente said in 1.1.4: Which platforms are open globally 🌍 to foreign investors?:

    @jomni indeed if InstaRem allows to change MYR into EUR it should be possible to use it to deposit on Mintos directly. Perhaps Mintos is not aware of InstaRem and does not accept it. After all , I don't think they have many Malaysian investors.

    Looks like many platforms don’t know InstaRem or they come out as anonymous senders for the receiving parties.


  • Community Manager

    @statscollection said in 1.1.4: Which platforms are open globally 🌍 to foreign investors?:

    Mintos:

    A big shout out to those who champion cross-border platforms, and mention Mintos - @antoniomc27 @Gaudente, among others.

    In hindsight, it seems so simple to set up and fund my Mintos account.
    But being an old fogey with a crystallized ‘bricks and mortar’ mindset ( IBAN?), it took me a few weeks to accomplish this simple task after some few trials and errors.

    Here are the final steps to success :

    I’m Malaysian, btw.

    1. Mintos account activation: About a week, after some persistent emails from me.

    2. InstaRem account activation: 4-5 days including KYC (some minor hiccups after KYC)

    3. TransferWise Borderless account activation: No issues here - about 2 days.

    4. Test transfer from my local bank account to IR. (1day)

    5. Test transfer from IR to TW (1 day)

    6. Full transfer from my local bank account to IR (a few hours )

    7. Full transfer from IR to TW (few hours - still working hours over there)

    8. Test transfer to Mintos through TW (1-2 days to reach there)

    9. Attach my TW deposit receipt and email to Mintos a few times. Here is their final auto-email response:
      0_1550681276402_81c75315-4739-4aa6-a6d6-4b03780ffc99-image.png
      It’s just a wordy message suggesting that they are under-staffed.
      Anyone should be hanged for using the word ‘proactive'.

    10. Finally, type “DPS” in the email subject, copy and paste the TW deposit receipt text.
      They fund my account after a few hours.
      All right, I’m all set to ‘go and grow’ my 40 Euros.

    PS: My 40 Euros got invested right away. I forgot to turn off the default auto-invest.
    Probably some agriculture loans.

    Thanks so much @StatsCollection for going into such detail, now we know exactly what we can do - for those based in MY looking to explore P2P platforms with the likes of Mintos

    Curious to know, why TransferWise for your borderless account?



  • Just wondering if, as P2P increases in popularity in MY and SG, will interest rates in general go down?

    In order for firms to expand their reach to more borrowers, since there seems to be hardly any shortage of investors? (judging from the auto investing situation)

    Likening this to P2P platforms in UK where the sector is almost a decade and half old - seems like 12-13% is more common. It's still higher here.



  • @arigatomon said in 1.1.4: Which platforms are open globally 🌍 to foreign investors?:

    Just wondering if, as P2P increases in popularity in MY and SG, will interest rates in general go down?

    In order for firms to expand their reach to more borrowers, since there seems to be hardly any shortage of investors? (judging from the auto investing situation)

    Likening this to P2P platforms in UK where the sector is almost a decade and half old - seems like 12-13% is more common. It's still higher here.

    12-13% considered high in the UK?



  • @arigatomon good question. At first sight, I think there are two main factors that influence the interest rates:

    • One is the rate the central bank has set (and which sets the benchmark that traditional banks and lending institutions will use)
    • The other one would be how heated the competition among platforms for alternative financing is.

    Which one is the dominant, I don't know. But probably in UK rates went down due to both factors. Same story for the rest of Europe. Interestingly enough, if you go to the US, the 2 main players (Lendingclub and Prosper) have even lower rates. 4 to 6% if not mistaken.



  • @antoniomc27 cool points.

    0_1551332596382_f053f3a2-1d60-4ca3-81d2-de268cc1599e-image.png

    On the first point, seems like for the last 15 years in Singapore the "average rate of interest charged on loans by 10 Singaporean leading banks and finance companies to private individuals and companies" has been rather constant?

    On the second point, given the difficulty in becoming a new player in the P2P space (both MY and SG due to strict regulations), perhaps the dip won't be as fast as it was in UK.

    Still glad to be part of the early adopters crew in SEA.



  • @arigatomon well not a lot of loans are at prime. Most loans now are SiBOR or SOR.



  • @kaeley-wn

    I had no other options; setting up Transerwise borderless account was the only way to go.
    I couldn't transfer from Myr to Mintos directly through TW (they support Myr inflow only, not outflow).

    Fortunately, InstaRem can facilitate Myr transfer to TW borderless account with any issue.
    So, basically, my funding had to go through these two intermediaries in order to reach Mintos and, hopefully, I can make some fresh new mints in the future. The charges are 0.5% of mid-rate exchange (IR) and 0.8 Eur (TW)

    Besides Mintos, I have conducted test drives on these Baltic/Balkans/East Europe platforms and originators, using the borderless account for funding and withdrawal.

    I will not go into full details:

    Account setup, token amount test funding and withdrawal - no issues (funding and withdrawing duration varies):

    1. Mintos

    2. PeerBeery

    3. Fast Invest
      _________________________________________________________

    4. Iuvo Group (setup only, not funded yet, shouldn't be an issue with funding and withdrawing)

    5. Bondora (some misadventures, don't go there)

    6. Crowd2Fund (minimum investment amount - 100 lbs, too heavy to lift, thanks anyway @kaeley-wn for the awareness ).

    To summarise, Malaysians can invest through Mintos, PeerBerry, Fast Invest, Iuvo-Group, and Crowd2Fund.
    There are probably others. This is a nifty website, for further research:
    https://moneybrewer.com/


  • Community Manager

    @statscollection said in 1.1.4: Which P2P platforms are open globally 🌍 to foreign investors?:

    @kaeley-wn

    I had no other options; setting up Transerwise borderless account was the only way to go.
    I couldn't transfer from Myr to Mintos directly through TW (they support Myr inflow only, not outflow).

    Fortunately, InstaRem can facilitate Myr transfer to TW borderless account with any issue.
    So, basically, my funding had to go through these two intermediaries in order to reach Mintos and, hopefully, I can make some fresh new mints in the future. The charges are 0.5% of mid-rate exchange (IR) and 0.8 Eur (TW)

    Besides Mintos, I have conducted test drives on these Baltic/Balkans/East Europe platforms and originators, using the borderless account for funding and withdrawal.

    I will not go into full details:

    Account setup, token amount test funding and withdrawal - no issues (funding and withdrawing duration varies):

    1. Mintos

    2. PeerBeery

    3. Fast Invest
      _________________________________________________________

    4. Iuvo Group (setup only, not funded yet, shouldn't be an issue with funding and withdrawing)

    5. Bondora (some misadventures, don't go there)

    6. Crowd2Fund (minimum investment amount - 100 lbs, too heavy to lift, thanks anyway @kaeley-wn for the awareness ).

    To summarise, Malaysians can invest in Mintos, PeerBerry, Fast Invest, Iuvo-Group, and Crowd2Fund.
    There are probably others. This is a nifty website for further research:
    https://moneybrewer.com/

    Thanks a lot for going the extra mile to summarise your trials @StatsCollection! 🍻



  • @jomni I see, hmm what's the difference?



  • @statscollection didn't know that Transferwise could act as a European account which is usually requested by many European p2p firms. Thanks for the share!



  • @arigatomon said in 1.1.4: Which P2P platforms are open globally 🌍 to foreign investors?:

    @antoniomc27 cool points.

    0_1551332596382_f053f3a2-1d60-4ca3-81d2-de268cc1599e-image.png

    On the first point, seems like for the last 15 years in Singapore the "average rate of interest charged on loans by 10 Singaporean leading banks and finance companies to private individuals and companies" has been rather constant?

    On the second point, given the difficulty in becoming a new player in the P2P space (both MY and SG due to strict regulations), perhaps the dip won't be as fast as it was in UK.

    Still glad to be part of the early adopters crew in SEA.

    It is natural that yield decreases during the lifecycle of the P2P lending business, just as you've pointed out in the UK - and also US. How soon, we don't know.
    If anyone has further insights do share.

    But yeah, glad to be part of it now too. :)



  • @arigatomon said in 1.1.4: Which P2P platforms are open globally 🌍 to foreign investors?:

    @jomni I see, hmm what's the difference?

    Prime rates set by banks. SIBOR and SOR are interbank market rates which fluctuate everyday.



  • @antoniomc27 Btw, I read somewhere too, that it could've been the influx of institutional investors which drove returns down since P2P's early days (in UK).



  • Hi @arigatomon, that makes a lot of sense. October is a French platform offering loans to SMEs in France, Spain, Italy, and the Netherlands. Most of their loans follow the same funding structure: half are funded by institutional investors, the other half by mom-and-pop like us. Their due diligence is strong, but in return their yields hover around 4%-8%. I have it in my portfolio as a less risky option to diversify into those 4 countries.

    So yeah whenever institutional money pours in, I guess loan demand rise very quickly, and they can afford to drop yields and still secure funding.



  • @antoniomc27 But doesn’t make sense as the probability of default is the same? I won’t call it safe just because many investors are chasing the deal despite fundamentals. The low rate should be justified by low default, and not due to demand.



  • @jomni I agree that it shouldn't be the reason per se.

    In October case, what happens is that the team has a long track record and a very good due diligence, so they managed to partner with institutional investors. They even launched Grow together some months ago, a campaign where 10 renowned French MNCs ( AccorHotels, Adecco, Allianz, JCDecaux, SUEZ,...) borrowed 100k symbolically to encourage other SMEs to get into crowdlending.

    Bear in mind, too, that Europe has been QE-addicted for a while already, with banks offering 0-1% for your money. With wages stagnated, welfare state threatened, and cost of living and taxes on the rise. That is why many people there find the risk-reward ratio of October acceptable.


 

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